At their final congregational meeting, they became a Harvest Bible Chapelgifting their building to us. Exactly what were people afraid of? Its a modern proverb that in organizations characterized by power differentials, mistreatment flows downhill. Its a lonely place, especially when my life was steeped in church community, teaching, and deep, deep, love for Christ and His people. It's God who opens doors, but we must walk through them. Law Prof: Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. Sovereign Grace Ministries But the question is, what guys would He be hanging out with? And check your privilege while youre at it. (Warning, men, the money supply may be drying up.). He is not egotistical, and not, as is so falsely asserted, all about getting glory he is all about stepping through the barriers of time and space to reveal his gentle, sacrificial love for us. (Protestia) Dallas Jenkins, son of "Left Behind" author Jerry Jenkins, and Director of the smash-hit TV show The Chosen continued to double down on controversial comments he made last year about Mormons (Latter Day Saints, ie LDS) and Jesus loving the same Jesus, appearing on Ruslan KD's channel and again insisting that some of his Mormon friends I pray that God will continue to use you to shine a spotlight on wicked works of darkness in Christendom today. Fred not only took out debt to fund new purchases, he took out additional debt on already encumbered buildings. Trust in Jesus and his completed work is what makes one a child of God. Noevangelical: Both HBC & WC had a plurality of elders and a single pastor as the head of their church. I bring up Eastern Orthodoxy because its dogma and practices are very old. They will return to their secrecy and self-dealing as a dog returns to his vomit, because power and money are that seductive and because if they could keep it a secret during the height of the Harvest scandal, no way will it be discovered at a less notorious church. America needs more Vietnamese restaurants than New Calvinist church plants. Please never leave this forum. I was a strong donor who loved the church and served in multiple areasI was in a good place spirituallybut I didnt meet the qualifications. According to 1 Timothy 3:1-7 What in the world is going on? The elders, set in place by God Himself (Ephesians 4:11), are to watch over, tend to and care for the flock of God. No one is forced to read comments and subject themselves to more pain, however, that discussion could help others in dealing or confronting issues. It could very well be that Christianity is at the tipping point where believers realize that they are doing church without God where they have put their faith in religious systems of assorted belief and practice, rather than building a personal relationship with Christ. ex HCA Staff: . From the earliest days of the institutional church, abuse and murder has been wreaked upon those who dared to believe that they could serve God outside of The Church. That sadness is so deep. . words like unsaved, which always has the connotation of someone to be wary of. Which direction you take religion or relationship determines whether you discover Truth or not. You couldnt care if the pastor lives in a 4 million dollar mansion. I suppose you would doubt your own mother? I was asked. This is why he has amassed good wealth. One church on six campuses serving together in this purpose: to glorify God and fulfill the Great Commission! Power provides for itself and money and sex. The damage lingers. You are loved!. HBC leaders will have to give an account before God for these things. In church context, it may even be worse than the secular business context because in addition to the objective institutional power wielded by the narcissist CEO, there is the presumption of divine authority which legitimates the misuse of power. HCA's highest purpose is to develop students who are grounded in God's Word. Nobody wants this. It didnt reveal anything new. When I now go to a church, I want to speak with elders and listen to what they are saying and how they are behaving and whether they are willing to reveal how much the pastor is making. If all this was that important to the leaders they would have been apoplectic at what they witnessed from JM. So why not allow comments? What are sheep to do? Also want to acknowledge it took courage to write that letter knowing your children might be kicked out of school. Or maybe their model for doing church is wrong? I can only imagine what was said as explanation, particularly as my spouse (still blindly loyal) remained much longer than I, until our children put up a united appeal to leave. Director Dallas Jenkins on the Goshen, Utah, set of "The Chosen" Season 2. I mean, everyone thought Willow Creek was that church. Craig French: Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. The qualifications are very restrictive for the reason that God wants and needs the best possible candidates to lead His people. In the Seventies, I got mixed up in an end-of-the-world cult Fellowship(TM) that didnt have any single leader figure only a plurality of (20-to-25-year old) elders. It was written by someone who could easily have become Elmer Gantry if hed gone into religion instead of literature. For those who regularly read this blog, question with critical thinking, demand proof for claims made, and hold those posting and commenting to the same standards being written about. We should not be surprised that the battle between the false and the true rages on, and should continue to cling to the true, whatever the cost. I am not Eastern Orthodox but I have been looking into it. And perhaps we should remember that Jesus did not come to set up authoritative institutions, but to gather his individual lost sheep. be in sin, This is no different then the very worst of false teachers in 2019. How would any of these men, with limited real life educations and skills, replace the six or seven figure incomes they were receiving, when you add in the benefits? Women's Bible Study. That is the foundation of our faith. But how long, under the sort of behavior he and others depict, can one be excused for overlooking the facts? Conversational-type sermons, contemporary worship music, come-as-you-are. Oh, I probably am too self-righteous or self-centered or something. Credibility has been diminished. I have to admit that Philippians 1 often comes to mind as I look at these mega-messes the American church is in. I would be interested in hearing about churches your tried or are trying. They all were making out pretty large with the tithes of people who thought they were giving to good causes. I truly believe God provides the grace for elders to walk in the attributes in 1Tim 3but if a church isnt even looking at those thingsbut rather recommends a person onto an elder board because he/she is strategic or a fundraiser or a CEO or a finance person or a large donor (or whatever nonsensical qualification they THINK they need)this is the departure that I think God says no to. A pastor or shepherd is one who devotes themselves to the care of the flock which is placed under his control. be a spiritual failure, Cudos for your honesty. Im sure it depends on the setting and the ministry of the church. Yikes! No longer do I feel like I know, or need to know, or could even remotely grasp the answers to so much of life. in Springfield MO in late April Driscoll Will be sharing his wisdom as a highlighted speaker. Our goals in writing these letters were accomplished, and its unfortunate that people are making them public. I dont see the point in saying that you are a Christ-follower if you dont get to know Him through reading His Word. The leaders of Harvest clearly did not shin light of problems; in fact it well documented now they were bullies/godfathers supressing thetruth. In September of 2012, we experienced another provision of God, in the form of the Scottish Rite Cathedrala historical landmark we reclaimed for the gospel in the heart of Chicagos Gold Coastwhich became the Chicago Cathedral Campus. Harvest took in over a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in the last 12 yrs and many of their properties were donated free and clear. Sure, an innocent, upright person could be naively drawn into something they thought was worthy. I love you, TS100, and I appreciate so much of what you say. I appreciated your comment, John. MacDonald pulled Harvest Bible Chapel from the fellowship, breaking the link between the two. Nothing to be ashamed of. Once fear grasps and security is sought, the ability and desire to do the right thing and think critically becomes nearly impossible when it means you too could be hurt or humbled. I will have to wait until I get to my computer because Im on my phone and the type of the letter is too small to read. They are needles in the haystack, rare and endangered species, last of the Mohicans so I will cheer them on rather than applauding those who masquerade as angels of light. The wheels of justice turn slowly. How to Resign from a Church The time for half measures is over. Didnt Dallas or is there another Jenkins son? The fact that the gospel according to Luke was accepted early seems to give credibility to Paul. As a Christian, how could they do otherwise? Let him call for the elders [PRESBUTEROS] of the church, and let them pray over him (James 5:14). Law Prof: I think Sinclair Lewis was an emotional infant and had a lot more in common with Elmer Gantry than he had the introspection to see. I hope somebody has kept good documentation somewhere of all such dealings that could be produced as evidence. CJ Mahaney spread $$$ which brought him years of support from the Calvinista leaders.. Not for money or fame but just because you want to show them love. Amy Moore: There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. I send my kids to a school literally run by bullies. Consider the following Scriptures: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors [POIMEN] and teachers (Ephesians 4:11). I can completely understand why Dee wouldnt want people here to be dragging stuff out and speculating about a teenage boy. Max, I love you. Their motives seem to have got in the way of what character development might otherwise have taken place (which certainly is reminiscent of present conditions in at least some of the churches). AND PREACHER-MAN INFLICTED THAT ON ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS? blameless What is harvest in the Bible? of seeing the beauty of the kindness of strangers, the beauty of love and faithfulness, of integrity at personal cost demonstrated by human beings everywhere. My current frustration, as someone who wants to get it right, is not knowing how to get it right in light of all the historical evidence. What in the world is running through his mind that he wouldnt want the truth shouted from the rooftops to those whod been under Macs influence far and wide? Many are passionate about their cause, but it is far too often found to be a misplaced passion. Harvest Christian Academy currently has more than 500 students, more than 60 staff members, and continues to move forward with a high leadership focus. I guess Dallas understands the power of the written word on the internet. Our students have weekly gatherings with worship, teaching, and group studies designed to propel them forward in faith. I sincerely thank you for this letter and the emotional turmoil you overcame to write it. If after that then the church must seek to cut off the relationship so that the sinner may be held account and that you may reach him towards restoring him. I say run. That notion is made up nonsense, harmful. Vietnamese cuisine is good! I believe he also was something of an unwitting prophet, possibly used by the Lord Himself, to reflect a mirror back at U.S. Christendom. The company typically gets sick and diessometimes quickly and sometimes suddenlybut it dies. ++++++++++++++++++++. Although, in a few places in Scripture he paused to advise us that he was speaking about a matter offering his opinion rather than what God was saying. I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. Even the FAQ section of this blog states Dee and Deb are interested in conflict, and I am graciously assuming they mean to help resolve it, not continue or inflame it. If I find solace anywhere, its in the quiet moments of solitude and silence wherein I sense anew that the mysteries of life are vast, and that my continued pursuit of that which is beautiful and simple and true is enough for now. Fred Adams former Harvest CFO has a serious gambling addiction. Harvest Bible Chapel Hillsong United James Dobson James MacDonald Jason Sobel Jenna Browder Jennie Lusko Joel Smallbone John Hessup Jonathan Roumie Joni Lamb Jordan Feliz Kari Jobe Katie Torwalt Kay Robertson Kirk Cameron KLOVE Leanna Crawford Levi Lusko Mandisa Marcus Lamb Matt Hagee Matt Maher Mavericm City Michael Jr Phil Robertson Phil Vischer Unless it was a danger to someone. Accept that and use this springboard given by God to be the leader God always intended you to be. In an interview with the Chicago Sun Times, Jenkins said, "We feel like if people can binge watch . Harvest launched a radio show; founded a Christian school with over 700 students; built its own retreat center; produced feature-length films; wrote its own worship songs; and created its own. Founded in 1988, it has grown to seven campuses in the Chicago metropolitan area. The bit about only a unanimous vote of their executive council being able to remove the lead pastor theres a recipe for success when grievous wolves are not unexpected. Here are some fun and easy strategies to make the most of every moment of your Bible study. Im not going to say that to you. It is unwise, and unsafe to loyally declare, But I know and love so and so. Sadly, clever manipulators can deceive very well. God doesnt need Harvest and in fact Id be willing to say the spirit of Jezebel has been leading that place since the early 2000s. No wonder why Harvest is in such a mess with leaders like you. Why in the world hed take this approach and evidently consider it courageous or fitting is completely beyond me. This hits the nail on the head. TS00: I dont see how you could get any further from the mark in your comment. Personally, I call bull. If you go here you can see them listed in the browser search https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+chosen+producers+james+macdonald&t=ffsb&ia=web but when you click on the link you can see that Jenkins had the producers list altered to remove those names and place all new producers (the money) except for himself on the website. Gut tells me hes just another narcissist, and this latest incarnation is another game. Max: Praise God for TWW and other watchblogs who do their best to get the word out on these guys, but you cant stop the spiritually illiterate from attending their exciting churches. That is part of our fallen world. Almighty God himself being murdered by a corrupt religious cabal in collusion with the Roman military. a Christian/inspirational filmmaker, and former Director of Visual Media and member of the Executive Leadership Team at Harvest Bible Chapel . This is even more understandable in our world of online abuse. Scott G Winterton, Deseret News. Its like a slow drip how the top dogs at HBC are resigning one by one! Yep, thats the house on a private lake, Thompson said. Something major happened this evening and I will speak about when I can. blameless The place is not worth saving. The potty-mouth preacher from Seattle is still a big draw for macho-men-wannabes and hes found a new audience within Assembly of God ranks. He was evidently so invested in making the Dramatic Point and leaving a Big Impression that I dont think he considered anyone else at that moment. I dont know, Ken. After all, Paige Patterson (big game hunter and ex-President, Southwestern Seminary) went on African safaris and used that experience to spread the gospel: https://swbts.edu/news/releases/game-banquet-uses-hunting-venue-spread-gospel/. This statement just doesnt sound much like what Jesus talked to the twelve about. Using second hand information is not of God. seeing the beauty of the deposit of God in them. If people develop real relationships, they might start talking and could stand up against the abuse. My writing partner (the burned-out preacher) described it as the best movie I dont ever want to see again. +++++++++++++++. Keep reading. This disturbing senior pastor made fun of other HBC church leaders for their physical attributes that he deemed not up to snuff with his obvious sartorial sense and unsurpassed personal good looks. I dont think any of these people have a clue about how that kind of trauma weaves its way into a persons life. The depth of the pain experienced in my family (and many others whom I know/knew first-hand) was life-changing profoundly life-changing and permanently steered my child AWAY from faith. Jenkins is jealous that he couldnt run the con as well as Jmac. can you elaborate on what went on during and after the showing of The Passion Of The Christ? Harvest Kids meet at 9:00a (Nursery-5th) + 11.00a (Nursery-3yrs). No more law-keeping. Vincent: you must have first hand knowledge and part of that fellowship in some fashion. holding fast the faithful word (And our atheist friend shows humility, respect, and insight.) i mean, why does it matter, any more than what elastigirl thinks, or what Max thinks, or what any of the other cast characters thinks? bad things will happen to them, This is why I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the Truth. Feb 14, 2022 . (ive mentioned my thoughts on this many times here & there at TWW, so apologies to one and all for yet another one. Thats too deep to answer. No self-declared elders have authority over anyone who does not put their voluntary and continued trust in them. just jyjames: How to do church that has nothing to do with Jesus, then. A person who thinks they are qualified, is someone who may need to take some time to discern whether thats true. He was a cynical grandstands and shameless self-promoter. ChurchOne App . The Elephant Debt has painstakingly detailed these issues for over five years. Your support is what helps bring hope, and is a large part of the reason I chose to comment here at TWW. It's literally in his DNA, as his father Jerry is the co-author of the popular LeftBehind series of religious novels. It appears he has been a poser, a bully and a thug for a very long time. Thanks to TWW and other watchblogs for standing in the gap. To whom was it sent? They truly have no idea. I would ask that you take some time to think about it. He already gets $500K tax free per year in deferred comp, plus reportedly around $200K tax free in parsonage allowance. Thanks for confirming the authenticity of the content, Dallas. ME MAN! But they wernt. My understanding is that Driscoll also consulted with Gateway. (Dee). Shout it from the housetops!! Jimmy & Gateway Sr Lead Pastor Robert Morris are two of only three Elders over Mark Driscolls church. Registration is now closed. Nothing is more dangerous than a tyrant who genuinely believes in his own false mission. Having experienced the unique life-changing work that God does when we interrupt our typical routines, our leaders began searching the Midwest for land suitable toward building a camp, or property with an existing camp. ANYONE who is still in that place who is not a child or a new believer is complicit and participated in shunning all who left. Dallas, you helped run an organization that prospered because of its public image which you helped create. Everything after those three paragraphs is my comment. Looking forward to the recording of a worship night on Thursday, March 2. Dallas, choose the path of humility! They deserve each other. Because he met the qualifications for eldership? A flock without herdsmen will quickly go astray. Whew! Dallas was complicit in this, and hes still complicit in attempting to hide the truth. he has no tore proof to offer me. 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Is someone who could easily have become Elmer Gantry if hed gone into religion instead of literature you get...
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